What causes obesity?

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Lincoln		#81	[-]
Posts: 2027 (09/04/09 09:49:01) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Today, the average person knows more about nutrition than nutrionists of the 1970s. I'm not convinced of that. The average person today "knows" that fat is bad, that everything is okay in moderation, that grains are an vital part of the diet, that diet soda is no worse than drinking plain water, that the problem food in a McDonalds is the hamburgers, that trans fats occur naturally and are okay in moderation, and all sorts of other "facts" that are highly dubious if not patently wrong. I can't tell you the number of people I know who switched from eggs for breakfast to bagels and strawberry youghurt because "it's healthier and low-fat". I think it's time to recognize that we "know" a whole lot less than we're willing to admit. "...the man who really counts in the world is the doer, not the mere critic-the man who actually does the work, even if roughly and imperfectly, not the man who only talks or writes about how it ought to be done." Teddy Roosevelt
Kevin40		#82	[-]
Posts: 411 (09/04/09 11:00:00) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	"I'm not convinced of that. The average person today "knows" that fat is bad, that everything is okay in moderation, that grains are an vital part of the diet, that diet soda is no worse than drinking plain water, that the problem food in a McDonalds is the hamburgers, that trans fats occur naturally and are okay in moderation, and all sorts of other "facts" that are highly dubious if not patently wrong. I can't tell you the number of people I know who switched from eggs for breakfast to bagels and strawberry youghurt because "it's healthier and low-fat". Where the hell do you live??? I'm thinking 1980's when I read the paragraph above. I'm constantly hearing: carbs are bad, Omega 3 oil is great, high quality protien is great, the Mediterranean Diet, South Beach Diet, Atkins Diet, Mono Diet, Paleo Diet, grass fed cows, extra virgin olive oil, wild salmon etc, etc.. I'm referring to mainstream media, not fringe discussion boards. Pick up any fitness, diet or almost any magazine and you'll find them talking the things I've listed above. I'm not hearing "anyone" pushing bagels or strawberry youghurt. Don't mention the government becuase no one listens to them. The obese people I know are way ahead of the curve on diet info. - they simply choose not to apply it. They willingly choose the ring ding over the wild salmon and are aware of the consequenses.
Lincoln		#83	[-]
Posts: 2027 (09/04/09 11:21:04) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Don't mention the government becuase no one listens to them. Disagree. I think the majority of the medical community, including most dieticians, are in lock-step with whatever the USDA tells them. "...the man who really counts in the world is the doer, not the mere critic-the man who actually does the work, even if roughly and imperfectly, not the man who only talks or writes about how it ought to be done." Teddy Roosevelt
Kevin40		#84	[-]
Posts: 411 (09/04/09 11:32:14) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Disagree. I think the majority of the medical community, including most dieticians, are in lock-step with whatever the USDA tells them. No they're not - how many books did Atkins or the author of the South Beach diet sell. Those authors certainly weren't pushing bagels. People don't listen to their doctors - they listen to "Oprah" and the media. Oprah knows more about nutrition than you or I ever will. She has access to the most knowledgeable people, the best cutting edge info. and the most recent data on works and what doesn't work. I've heard her talk about the evils of carbs and the health benefits of good fats and quality protien - I've heard her talk about how going on a diet is bad and that a permanent "life-style change" is required to be successful. She knows exactly what it takes to stay lean. But gee-whiz, she's not successful either - I wonder why?
Serious Strength		#85	[-]
Posts: 4364 (09/04/09 13:02:19) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Oprah needs to seem 'real' to people. It's part of the strategy. She's also a billionaire and so can eat wherever she wants, whenever she wants. If I had her money I'd be fatter too. People are fat today because they eat too much and too much refined carbs. Too much fructose as well. This causes insulin resistance from large rises in insulin over time,
Lincoln		#86	[-]
Posts: 2027 (09/04/09 13:06:19) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	No they're not - how many books did Atkins or the author of the South Beach diet sell. Those authors certainly weren't pushing bagels. And man, the majority of the medical community, including most dieticians, lambasted Atkins for decades. But gee-whiz, she's not successful either - I wonder why? Maybe because she's not as right as she thinks. This is the same woman who ran a marathon -- in 4:29. For many of her followers running a marathon as fast [using the term fast very loosely] as Oprah has become the pinnacle of fitness achievement. http://www.beatoprahsmarathontime.com/ There's even a name for this feat: The infamous Oprah Line. http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2007/11/03/marathon/ You'll just have to excuse me if I don't accept the notion that Oprah has an inside scoop on the best nutrition and fitness information. "...the man who really counts in the world is the doer, not the mere critic-the man who actually does the work, even if roughly and imperfectly, not the man who only talks or writes about how it ought to be done." Teddy Roosevelt
Kevin40		#87	[-]
Posts: 411 (09/04/09 13:34:32) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I never wrote anything about Oprah's stance on fitness. Who cares about her marathon - that was a long time ago. On nutrition, you'll have to admit that she certainly knows enough to keep herself lean - but she doesn't. You'll have to excuse me in not believing that obese people don't have enough knowledge to lose weight and keep it off. Any magazine rack gives them more than enough info to figure it out.
Lincoln		#88	[-]
Posts: 2027 (09/04/09 14:07:23) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	you'll have to admit that she certainly knows enough to keep herself lean We'll have to agree to disagree. I think she is a victim of pop media science. Did you see that her trainer Bob Greene is offering expert advice on "How Not To Gain It All Back"? That's chutzpah! Especially considering his Number One client keeps gaining it all back in spectacularly public fashion. You think he'd be at least a bit embarrased by the whole situation and meakly admit that it's an issue he's still trying to learn how to fix. Any magazine rack gives them more than enough info to figure it out. Grab any issue of "Shape" magazine. On every single cover they trumpet at least one article that implies it has a spot reducing exercise for your problem areas. It's a really popular magazine. Their editors get to talk on Good Morning America and the Today show at regular intervals. People really believe that stuff. "...the man who really counts in the world is the doer, not the mere critic-the man who actually does the work, even if roughly and imperfectly, not the man who only talks or writes about how it ought to be done." Teddy Roosevelt Last Edited By: Lincoln 09/04/09 14:17:12. Edited 2 times.
Kevin40		#89	[-]
Posts: 411 (09/04/09 18:47:48) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I think the only possible way John Greene could have been with Oprah would be to follow her around and slap her hand every time she goes for the chips. I agree that Greene has a lot of gall to write a book about how to keep weight off when his high profile client failed - but I think Oprah would have failed with the best trainer/nutritionist in the world.
sb413197		#90	[-]
Posts: 625 (09/05/09 05:11:27) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Serious Strength wrote: She's also a billionaire and so can eat wherever she wants, whenever she wants. If I had her money I'd be fatter too. Interesting - yet lower income groups seem to have higher rates of obesity. What would you eat if you were a billionaire? I suppose if I had that kind of money I would be eating at 5 star restaurants more Although from my experience the really expensive restaurants tend to serve smaller portions (this varies somewhat) Steve Brose
Lincoln		#91	[-]
Posts: 2027 (09/05/09 13:30:39) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Up scale cooking does tend to use smaller portions. Invariably the ingredients are fresh and unprocessed. If you watch shows like Top Chef and Iron Chef and Gordon Ramsey you'll also see that desserts are very much played down, if they are mentioned at all. But if you watch Paula Dean and Rachel Ray - definitely a more low-rent audience - you'd swear they practically live on pancakes and Nabisco crackers. "...the man who really counts in the world is the doer, not the mere critic-the man who actually does the work, even if roughly and imperfectly, not the man who only talks or writes about how it ought to be done." Teddy Roosevelt
Serious Strength		#92	[-]
Posts: 4364 (10/12/09 09:46:17) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	sb413197 wrote: Serious Strength wrote: She's also a billionaire and so can eat wherever she wants, whenever she wants. If I had her money I'd be fatter too. Interesting - yet lower income groups seem to have higher rates of obesity. What would you eat if you were a billionaire? I suppose if I had that kind of money I would be eating at 5 star restaurants more Although from my experience the really expensive restaurants tend to serve smaller portions (this varies somewhat) This is because the poor can best afford refined, hi GI carbs. They can't afford, steak and other meats as easily as rice, mashed potato mix, etc.
sb413197		#93	[-]
Posts: 625 (10/12/09 12:22:31) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Fred wrote: This is because the poor can best afford refined, hi GI carbs. They can't afford, steak and other meats as easily as rice, mashed potato mix, etc. Yep. And I think that is why Oprah is a bit of an anomaly there. Another point: upscale cooking involves a lot of different spices and timely preperation that reduces need for sugar and lots of fat to make a food taste good. Steve Brose
Serious Strength		#94	[-]
Posts: 4364 (10/14/09 10:05:43) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	sb413197 wrote: Fred wrote: This is because the poor can best afford refined, hi GI carbs. They can't afford, steak and other meats as easily as rice, mashed potato mix, etc. Yep. And I think that is why Oprah is a bit of an anomaly there. Another point: upscale cooking involves a lot of different spices and timely preperation that reduces need for sugar and lots of fat to make a food taste good. Well you can be rich and eat a lot of carbs too. Once you make yourself insulin resistant, you're in trouble. And she has Bob Greene as a trainer to boot and Dr. Oz as her MD. Surrounding yourself with folks like these won't do you much good.
sb413197		#95	[-]
Posts: 625 (10/14/09 16:20:10) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Fred wrote: And she has Bob Greene as a trainer to boot and Dr. Oz as her MD. Surrounding yourself with folks like these won't do you much good. What about them don't you like? Steve Brose
Lincoln		#96	[-]
Posts: 2027 (10/14/09 16:34:15) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	How about failure with their biggest (ha ha) client? Shouldn't that be enough? Of course our new Surgeon General is a tub of goo with strong ties to Burger King and ConAgra, so between those two the U.S. is pretty much doomed to the current course of ever-expanding waistlines. "...the man who really counts in the world is the doer, not the mere critic-the man who actually does the work, even if roughly and imperfectly, not the man who only talks or writes about how it ought to be done." Teddy Roosevelt
Serious Strength		#97	[-]
Posts: 4364 (10/15/09 15:09:08) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	sb413197 wrote: Fred wrote: And she has Bob Greene as a trainer to boot and Dr. Oz as her MD. Surrounding yourself with folks like these won't do you much good. What about them don't you like? Their haunting disinterest in the real causes and cures of adolescent obesity and diabetes. I was interviewed by both of them.
Lincoln		#98	[-]
Posts: 2027 (10/15/09 16:05:16) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Fred, what do think of the theory that obesity is not a cause of Type II diabetes and other ailments but rather it is merely one of the symptoms of hyperinsulinemia? The modern pop science media says that obesity causes poor health. What if this is wrong? What if, instead, certain forms of poor health can cause obesity, but not all obesity is the result of poor health? This theory comes from the idea that long-term hyperinsulinemia is always associated with poor health and shortened longevity while obesity is not always associated with poor health and premature death. Wouldn't this necessitate a change in strategy for treating obesity? It would have to be treated as a symptom and not a root cause. It would go a long way towards explaining why modern treatments for obesity are abject failures. "...the man who really counts in the world is the doer, not the mere critic-the man who actually does the work, even if roughly and imperfectly, not the man who only talks or writes about how it ought to be done." Teddy Roosevelt Last Edited By: Lincoln 10/15/09 16:08:42. Edited 2 times.
BLOBERT		#99	[-]
Posts: 1019 (10/15/09 17:07:50) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	This is ridiculous. Obesity, to a large extent, is a lifestyle choice. There are genetic modifiers, but you cannot cure obesity if concious choice exists. Same with addiction. Some people will eat, some will get high. If you live in the land of plenty, you can get both cheap and with government assistance. "I do not have such word as diet. I eat all." <br> -Victor Naleikin
Serious Strength		#100	[-]
Posts: 4364 (10/16/09 07:24:01) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Lincoln wrote: Fred, what do think of the theory that obesity is not a cause of Type II diabetes and other ailments but rather it is merely one of the symptoms of hyperinsulinemia? The modern pop science media says that obesity causes poor health. What if this is wrong? What if, instead, certain forms of poor health can cause obesity, but not all obesity is the result of poor health? This theory comes from the idea that long-term hyperinsulinemia is always associated with poor health and shortened longevity while obesity is not always associated with poor health and premature death. Wouldn't this necessitate a change in strategy for treating obesity? It would have to be treated as a symptom and not a root cause. It would go a long way towards explaining why modern treatments for obesity are abject failures. Obesity is a disorder of excess fat accumulation. And type II diabetes is an outcome of excessive insulin production over the years of eating crap carbs/sugar resulting in insulin resistance. Beta-cell burnout in the pancreas as well. Both obesity and type II diabetes are self inflicted. the default diet should be one that is low in sugar and high in nutrients and saturated fats along with adequate protein. A diet such as this makes it virtually impossible to become obese or diabetic and is the very best cure if you are already. Obesity is a hormonal disorder - not a lifestlyle choice. Sloth and eating lots of calories is NOT the issue.

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